Transcript Below Key Links
Chronic illness will be a choice, gut microbiome is the key.
Naveen Jain is an entrepreneur and philanthropist driven to solve the world’s biggest challenges through innovation. The founder of Moon Express, World Innovation Institute, iNome, TalentWise, Intelius, and Infospace, Naveen sees beyond the current business and technological landscape, creating companies that make a true impact. His latest venture is Viome and this interview focuses on the big audacious goal of eradicating chronic illness.
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Here are the Key Questions answered and highlights:
1. Why the gut health, gut microbiome, & gut bacteria? (01:55)
– If you want to challenge and disrupt an industry it is coming from outside that industry and challenging the foundation of everything.
– Autism or depression or anxiety or you call or diabetes or obesity or you may call it autoimmune diseases I.B.S. All kinds of issues these are the symptoms that we see going on gut health is out of balance
2. What if they can find out what is going on inside the body what organism is there, how active it is and what exactly it is doing inside the body? (16:50)
– Only come out if they can find out what’s making us sick why can’t we just keep people healthy
– We can do something that is so meaningful that isn’t changed the trajectory of humanity is going to lift people
3. So give us an elevator pitch for those tech folks that want to hear an elevator pitch and how much money have you raised and how long have you been around? (20:30)
– We have been around for two years and we launched a service give or take about six months
ago when we launched the service and interesting thing happened.
4. When you say you’re able to identify the missing nutrients do you actually provide a listing of you know your missing vitamin A vitamin C. Vitamin D. Or is that more generic? (24:54)
– We’re looking at the organism side we’re not doing the panel so we’re not looking at the black panels
– We look at the gene expression of blood
5. How do you bring the price point down to what level that becomes affordable for the common person? (34:54)
– We want this to be available to the bottom twenty percent
6. How do you get viome to be one of the tests that they provide some coverage for? (36:05)
– The insurance company has no incentive to keep the people healthy because they
make the fixed margin.
7. How are you beginning to track your studies and results? (37:20)
– Food is the drug
– They have no incentive there’s nobody says let’s blow up
8. I’ve not been taking dairy now for two years how does the test identify whether dairy can be brought back into my diet or not? (42:37)
– If you have this Lactobacillus and they’re not actually getting any dairy not producing any enzymes.
9. Are you able to test for things like wheat sensitivity or into our food intolerances? (43:06)
– We don’t test for food in the food sensitivities from the perspective of the blood
– Every time you have a leaky gut every food that you have eaten goes out and gets into the bloodstream
10. Are you providing support? Are you providing phone-based order what community are you creating to help people stay on track? (46:24)
– Build a virtual coach model
– A model of a recipe database call chef Y.
– Someday you might even have a nano box inside your body that’s transmitting the information in the real-time about as you eat certain things how your bodies react.
Thank you, Naveen for offering our listeners $100 OFF Viome testing!
Grab yours before we run out- to purchase with $100 off please click here >>
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This is auto-generated and may have mistakes. Please listen to the interview for accuracy.
Reena Jadhav: Hi everyone. I am so honored and so thrilled to have Naveen Jain. He’s driven to solve the world’s biggest challenges through innovation. He’s the founder of several successful companies including moon express biome, which is what we’re going to talk about today. Blue Dot talentwise, intelius infospace. He’s the trustee of the board of the x prize foundation, where he’s focused on using incentive price is to find solution to many of society’s challenges. In fact, this is dear to my heart, launched a million dollar women safety x prize to empower women around the world. Another amazing Nevine is also on the board of Singularity University where he is focused on educating and inspiring leaders to address humanity’s grand challenges. He has been awarded so many honors, too many to list, but with that said, just a few, the most inspiring entrepreneur, top 20 entrepreneurs, lifetime achievement awards, Albert Einstein Technology Medal, and of course the Ernst and Young entrepreneur of the year nevine welcome. It’s truly an honor and a privilege.
Naveen Jain: It is an absolute pleasure to be on your show because I have read your journey and I think it just is amazing to see what you as an individual has accomplished, not only as a professional but also taking charge of your own health and I’m just. I’m going to share our stories together.
Reena Jadhav: Thank you so much. Yes. As you know with my gut issues, I am so delighted and grateful to an executive like yourself that has taken time, bright, very precious time, limited time to address the gut. So let’s start at the beginning. Lie the Gut Nevine
Naveen Jain: Yeah. To some extent. You know, I just said I’m not a scientist, I’m not a doctor, and a lot of people would say, oh, in that case, why would you be doing something around health? What is really fundamentally comes down to is that once you are an expert at something, you are able to only improve it incrementally by 10 percent or 15 percent. If you want a challenge and disrupt an industry, it is coming from outside that industry and challenging the foundation of everything that experts have taken it for granted. Unless you’re able to do that, you’ll never be able to change the industry from the ground up. So for example, in our medical system, even to date, we are so if you’re graduating from medical school today, we are taught that our human body, that healthiest human body is sterile human body, that ms dot completely devoid of all of the bacteria.
Naveen Jain: Wireless is not our job if we see them kill them. So it’s a war against the bacteria and viruses. It turns out that if you look at the human, are we as an organism, there are more bacterial cells inside our body than the human cells. And if you look at from the gene expression perspective, the Human Dna only produces 20,000 genes and our bacterial and lidl cells and the fungi in and the mood, these micro organisms in our gut, they produce 2 million genes. I think that for a second via one percent human. So yeah, walking, talking ecosystem. And it’s not about us versus them. It is us and them in a symbiotic relationship. And you know, I’m going to tell you that he knows that one day I was thinking about how do I explain this? What’s going on inside our body and how did get cleared it.
Naveen Jain: And I came up with this idea one day it’d been that you don’t bacteremia in why does this have been on this planet earth for three and a half or 4 billion years. And the humans are only about give or take 200,000, 250,000 years ago. It’s been humans got cleared it. So I wonder about a million years ago or so, I wonder if all the bacteria and why does he’s got together and said, you know, we were just sick and tired of living in this local society just take over the world and they want to see it, you know, that sounds like good idea. What do you think we should do? And they said, what if we can create something that can carry us around. All we have to do is keep this thing healthy and feed us every. We’re going to go out and go everywhere.
Naveen Jain: They’re going to poop every visit, they’re going to spread it out and we’re going to just take hold of the world. Humans, you know from a name. So from a nature perspective, really, you know, we are a carrier for micro organisms and you know, this symbiotic relationship that I was talking about it, you don’t insidiousness what it really means is that large extent microbes in our gut keep us healthy. So I think I’m going to see something that I think most people are going to be surprised and I think you and I will say right now, pretty single chronic disease, the symptoms may look different, but the underlying cause is the same. So whether the chronic disease called Parkinson’s disease or Alzheimer or autism or depression or anxiety or you call it diabetes or obesity, or you may call it auto immune disease, ibs, ibd, all kinds of issues.
Naveen Jain: These are the symptoms that we see when our gut is out of balance. Imagine then the hippocrates said, all disease in the Gut and somehow on medical profession for God. In fact, he was so far ahead that new family coming back to it is that, you know, he said one man’s food is another man’s poison. And he said, let the food be thy medicine and medicine be thy food. And now in 2000 years later we started wild. What do we see is all about personalization. There is no such thing as a healthy diet. Healthy for you is not healthy for me and what’s healthy for me today wouldn’t be healthy for me. Uh, you know, three to four months because your body is constantly adapting and changing is coming back to what we learned. We are able to scientifically show you why, but there’s nothing that we’re saying that we didn’t know 4,000 years ago.
Remember, Reena, you and I can talk about Aryuveda. I mean, I just signs that clearly sees that each one of us are unique and that there is no such thing as one right diet and this diet is for you, this diet for you and by the way, your diet will constantly change based on the seasons, based on the stage of life and not only do the same thing scientifically
Reena Jadhav: or were attempting to write. And I think that’s where a biome comes in. We, I think we tried in our healthcare system to create a one size fits all in order to scale in order to, um, I think commercialized medicine and I know I’m going to get into trouble and I’m sure I’m going to get a lot of emails with that. No, not every doctor wants to be commercial, but I think as a system we have tried to systematize medicine to a point which is what we’ve been doing with other industries and it works with other industries.
Naveen Jain: Actually, it doesn’t work with other industries either because the mentally, if you look at it, the reason I started this company was you, as you and I were talking briefly that my other company that I’m working on is moon express, which is a company that is the only company in the universe that is permission believe our land on the moon. So it’s literally a moonshot. And the idea was that, you know, what do you do as an encore after you do dumb shit. You know, what about we can look at education or healthcare and the reason I mentioned that is if you think about the other industry, the problems are very, very similar. Our education system was designed to teach US skills and we could use those skills for the rest of our life and life was wonderful. In the world of exponential technologies. Everything that we learn becomes obsolete every four to five years is by the time we graduate.
Naveen Jain: The things that we have learned are no longer applicable. So even though the design, the education system as a industrialized education system that we need these things, accountants, we need 50 or these machine mechanics and we need 60 of these middle class people and it didn’t matter. They were called, uh, you know, on our ball or David, we just needed them. And that system worked really well. His skills are no longer valid by the time you graduated. So we have to rethink the whole education is completely right, completely longer skill based
Reena Jadhav: But it has to be personalized. And you’re right, there’s, there’s another industry that is desperately in need of a student by student based personalized curriculum. And I think Khan Academy’s attempting that, but slow the changes.
Naveen Jain: And the problem with the knee again, is the same thing. It’s not personalized enough how you learn.
Naveen Jain: So imagine if you learn experimentally, you learn graphically. It needs to. The education system needs to adapt to how you learn rather than you adapting to how teacher is teaching
Reena Jadhav: Is that your next venture?
Naveen Jain: So here’s actually, honestly, my goal is that if I can fix the healthcare system in the next three to five years, then I’m going to go out and fix the education system and if one of your listener has is listening and taking their advice and if they are able to fix the education system, we got other problems to solve, creating the abundance of food, creating the abundance of energy, creating the abundance of land, and we really. I have to do all of this stuff. The bigger the problem bigger, I’ll come back to the answer of the healthcare system. What is going on? Our healthcare system is our healthcare system was designed for the times when people were dying from infectious disease, so they industrialized system that says let’s take care of the acute care.
People are infectious, people have infection. Let’s give them things that will get rid of this infraction and their system just like education system worked amazingly well and just like in our education system, since it’s failing us, what do we have is a chronic unemployment and what’s happening in our healthcare system is that the thing that was supposed to cure us is largely responsible. The antibiotics have become largely to create this thing called chronic diseases. What are these chronic diseases? These are diseases that we see which are basically caused by the chronic inflammation and the chronic inflammation is caused by the imbalance of our microbiota releasing the toxin and the enzymes and the metabolites in our body that are changing the gene expression that are causing the immune system not to know what to do and the inflammation is the one thing that body does when it doesn’t know how to kill the things that it see
Reena Jadhav: And it starts to attack itself.
Naveen Jain: Is exactly what’s happening. So you know, point is one of our healthcare system to large extent has lost its purpose. It was designed to help cure us as humans and it has become acidic, right? In a sense for me to say, so our system is is no longer designed to make sure that we don’t get sick because if you are a patient and if you don’t get sick that your doctor is going to be sick because he didn’t leave.
Naveen Jain: A pharmaceutical companies are designed to take advantage of our chronic diseases, right? Because it’s a subscription business forever for. So one of the pharmaceutical company CEO that arena seed on a conference call on his earnings quality is the best drugs that we develop. Other drugs that people have to pick for the rest of their life. So imagine what he’s saying. He said the best drugs we do are the ones that don’t cure anything but keeping sick.
Reena Jadhav: We want a sick nation. I mean that’s the gist of it. We need a sick nation to fund the next quarterly report and in fact, I don’t know if you’ve heard this, but now they’re starting to prescribe things prophylactically. Like you don’t have heart issues, but we’re going to prophylactically give this to you and it’s been approved so you may go unhealthy to the doctor. Oh, and ranges have changed so that, oh, you weren’t in the range yesterday for the and, but today we can put you on it and you know what prophylactically we’re going to make you healthier.
Reena Jadhav: Well, that’s not true because if you’re looking at the side effects of these drugs, they’re going to clean neat new chronic illness and you
Naveen Jain: Absolutely remember the drugs are simply suppressing the symptom. You’re not curing anything. Right?
Reena Jadhav: I’m creating new symptoms. They’re creating real new issues
Naveen Jain: I’m creating new symptoms. They’re creating real new issues
Reena Jadhav: That’s right.is a great strategy
Naveen Jain: The whole idea,I mean the whole idea of healthcare system is, you know, you take a certain group of symptoms and randomly call that a disease. Right? And once you call something a disease, you get an insurance code for it and they did drunk for it and they don’t really care that underlying os for the same symptoms may be very, very different.
Reena Jadhav: Exactly. Exactly.
Naveen Jain: Oh my God. You know, just really, really, how would I say, fix me off that how these medical system is actually taking advantage of people.
Naveen Jain: You know, I tell people when you are sick, you are helpless and hopeless and the minute you feel helpless and hopeless, someone is going to victimize you and that today is your healthcare system that have been. I’m going to start this when I started. While I say I’m not going to work with the system. I’m going to go around the system directly to the people who are actually need help. And idea is what if we can create a world where sickness is optional. If you and I have all the information that we need to know what is happening inside our body and we have information that we know what to do with it, that needs what actions we can take to fix the underlying cause of what is going on and for the first time in human history we have the sensors, the sequencing, the technology, the computing power, the artificial intelligence to be able to look at that.
Naveen Jain: And so what we did was, when I was finishing up the moon express project, I started thinking about how would I solve the fundamental problem of healthcare. It was clear to me that when I started reading all the science journals, it became clear to me that every single chronic disease is caused by our gut issues and are all of these gut issues are fundamentally the issues that we can fix to diet. That means all we have to do is understand what is it that these microbiome are doing in our gut. And the problem that was happening was that the science just wasn’t there for us to know what is going on inside our body at best. You could even identify some organism at some very high level, but that was not actionable. So distinctly. I was at Los Alamos National Lab, as you know, is, is famous for a devloping atomic bomb.
Naveen Jain: So these guys are working on whole bunch of. Very high, a secret of a national security stuff. I was there and talking to some of the scientists and they were working on and biodefense project and think about what they were trying to do. They were trying to find out if there was a bad actor and they were to get hold of something biological, how would we know as a nation what is making us sick? So they developed a technology that is very quickly, very cheaply. What if they can find out what is going on inside the body, what organism is there, how activities and what exactly it is doing inside the body.
Reena Jadhav: Oh, very cool.
Naveen Jain: And I said, oh my God, if they can find out what’s making us sick, why can’t we just use keep people healthy.
Reena Jadhav: That’s right.
Naveen Jain: Right. So I licensed the technology so we have the exclusive license to this wonderful technology from Los Alamos and I launched the company and interesting thing happened when you go out and do something so audacious that challenges the foundational, what people take it for.
Naveen Jain: Granted, you are able to attract the best and the brightest people around the world to help you.
Reena Jadhav: Absolutely
Naveen Jain: So I started saying, I’m going to launch a healthcare company with a single sole purpose of making sickness a matter of choice. Not a matter of bad luck. I guess what happened? I got a call from the head of the IBM Watson Group. He said, you know, you need the artificial intelligence. I’ve been working on this for 25 years. I’m going to quit my job because this is my legacy. I want to work on the hardest problem and what you’re doing is most exciting and I want to come through that. I got a call from Dr Massey Phd in microbiology. She is a md. She’s a functional medicine. She’s working for craig venter on human longevity. Increasing a lifetime, two years, right? And she said, what’s the point? Increase living longer if people are going to be sick. My job, I’m going to come join. You want to keep people healthy.
Reena Jadhav: You stole someone from craig or not only didn’t go well.
Naveen Jain: What point is dr use of which, who was working on this biodefense work? He said, you know what, in my life, this is the project that I could sink my teeth in to get in the hands of millions of people to keep them healthy so he could see a federal job to come and join me. And that iS the amazing thing is when you have people that start, you know what happens next, when you have all these amazing people joining, magic happens. Well, venture capital start calling you. What are you doing nevine? How come all these people are quitting and joining you? And if you tell them, well, I don’t need the money. That’s like raising a red flag in front of a bull, right? You don’t need them. You have to give you money.
Reena Jadhav: We want to be part of the success,the excellent
Naveen Jain: Part of their success, and that is actually how we ended up creating.
Naveen Jain: We attracted the some of the best and the brightest because we were solving a problem that matters and that to me is again all seriousness. If we in our life, we can do something that is so meaningful, that isn’t, that will change the trajectory of how humanity is going to live. People will do everything to help you deliver your goal. The universe aligns itself to make your dreams come true.
Reena Jadhav: Very true. I see it happen every day
Naveen Jain: Every day. So people like you who are helping us spread this magic of Wyoming because we don’t spend one cent on marketing beCause if we stand the one central marketing, we have to increase the cost of our service that we can deliver to the people.Right?
Reena Jadhav: So let’s talk about. So give us an elevator pitch for those of the tech folks that want to hear an elevator pitch and how much money have you raised and how long have you been around?
Naveen Jain: So we have raised $21,000,000. We have been around for two years and we launched a servIce give or take about six months ago is when we launched the service. and interesting thing happened that you know, I just from the word of mouth, everyone that you can imagine, dr mark hyman was a for the first one, when he was sick, he used the Wyoming. He says, tell me what is going on inside my gut. And we told him what was going on, not only he got better, he wrote a blog and I can send you the link to it that says Wyoming is the most revolutionary thing that he has ever seen. He wants every one of his people to go out and sign up for awhile. So. But my point is that amazing things are happening because you know this technology, until we got the license to it, to do a understanding of every single organism inside your gut.
Naveen Jain: What we do
Reena Jadhav: Tell us how it works. So if someone’s interested, how does it actually work?
Naveen Jain: Yeah. So basically you sign up at [inaudible] dot com. And as we’re done with batteries, very interesting. You’re going to laugh at me. Indians cannot pronounce the word, so I can never say this. We as in victor, I isn’t an Indiana o, m e y m.com and you know when you sign up we send you a kit. It has do desk, one is called gut intelligence test and what is called the metabolic intelligence test. So gut intelligence test is you essentially take a swab of his tulies, send it to another test to prepaid envelope, and then what we do is we look at every single organism, the rna, not the dna, the rna and the. And the reason we look at the rna is because we know they are number one, they are alive and also tells us that they’re alive.
Naveen Jain: We know how active they are, but the most importantly, what are they doing? So we look At are they producing, are they producing lps, which is going to cause inflammation. Are they producing the other short chain fatty acids? Are they producing the vitamins? So we look at everything they are doing, not what they could have been doing or who they are. Because what we find is the same organism in your gut could be doing completely different in my gut human being. And I are together, maybe we can have a serious conversation and maybe four of us, we can be partying, right? So depending on who else is there are behavior changes, right? And just like bacteria, depending on how many of them are together, they do the quorum sensing and the behavior changes once they get the quorum right and depending on who else is there, they are just themselves in terms of how they function.
Naveen Jain: So we do that and then we look at the metabolic intelligence side which is at home, you are able to just use the finger prick and we are able to find out how does your body digest fat, how does your body digest carbohydrates, how does the body digest protein, and then we look at all of the information. Then you give us about yourself and then we pay all of that information about all the organisms, what they’re doing, how active they are, your metabolic side, all of the phenotypical data that you gave us, and then we put that into the artificial intelligence to say, okay, here it is. What is wrong here is what is imbalanced, right? Because If your gut is imbalanced, you are basically bodies that ease the minute your gut is not balanced, your body becomes uneasy. Uneasy is what we call this ease disease, right? This is just simply the unease of the body because of the imbalance of our gut microbiome. Our thinking is then what we do is we make you. It’s very specific recommendation of what nutrients are missing, how you can get them from the food or if you can short term what supplements you need. And again, we don’t sell anything we don’t sell, we don’t sell probiotics, so we only tell you what you need because we have no incentive to for you to say, go out and buy these supplements because we are selling them.
Reena Jadhav: So quick clarification, when you say you’re able to identify the missing nutrients, do you actually provide a listing of, you know, you’re missing vitamin a, vitamin c, vitamin d, or is it more generic than that? So are you actually doing a new nutritional panel as well?
Naveen Jain: So we actually show you that. So you need a cookie 10 or
Reena Jadhav: You do. Okay.And how many nutrition nutrients do you check for them or test scores?
Naveen Jain: Again, we’re looking at the organism side. We’re not doing the blood panel, so we’re not looking at the blood panels, light white, diamond, d dot white, gum and bb, and looking at what your microbiome is producing and how do you metabolically, how your body’s digesting different macronutrients. Uh, now I’m going to tell you something that we talk about generally that in the next 90 days we’re adding some very, very interesting things to our arsenal. One of theM is from a couple of drops of blood will be able to do what we call the blood transcriptomics. That ms dot for the first time we’ll be able to look at the gene expression of our mitochondria will be able to look at the gene expression of our blood, will be able to look at all the transcripts that are being expressed in the blood. That ms dot will be able to see all the inflammatory markers, every cytokines, every interleukin, crp and everything. So we know how you, what kind of inflammation you have in the body and how much we’ll be able to look at, not what your genes are, because your genes are not your destiny. It is all about what is being expressed.
Reena Jadhav: That’s right. And why is it being expressed that way?
Naveen Jain: Exactly. Because you know, if you look at our human body, everybody thinks we are. Our genes are destiny. What they don’t realize is every one of us as humans, 99 point five percent of our genes are seeing, in fact us and the tree, 90 percent of genes are saying between a tree and a human being and a banana, but interesting parties. Even within our body, we have exactly identical genes are in our hair, in our skin, in our heart, in a lung. And I thought, and you don’t want the truth growing on top of your head. The differences, what genes are expressed is what makes us who we out. So we look at the gene expression to see what is being expressed. And it’s very interesting is that in fact, you can ask mark the cleveland clinic published research that breast cancer is caused by the microbiome.
Naveen Jain: In fact, it’s very interesting one, and obviously the, you know, you have gone through your own personal journey, whether the cure for the gangster works or does not work depends on your microbiome. So they search that just came out. It was about immunotherapy and one drug, whether It works or does not work depends on your microbiome and chemotherapy, whether it was sort of pills you depends on your mind.
Reena Jadhav: Oh, it’s incredible. I mean, the strength of our health is the microbiome. It really drives pretty much everything else, including recovery. So what?
Naveen Jain: It’s not us versus them. We always say, you know, most people don’t realize that gut brain connection, that means our brain actually communicating with our gut. And most people think that our gut is our secondary brain, I believe. I think we are going to conclude in the next five to 10 years, that gut is a primary brain.
And here’s why. I think so. just like the olden days, people used to believe the earth is the center of our solar system and I believe. Here’s whY. If you look at the world that craving happens, we’re hungry you your microbiome, and your gut tells you when you’re hungry, when they are full control. By the way, they were very interesting research. They use a micro rna interference interference in your amygdala and your prefrontal cortex. That means they’re controlling our behavior and the controlling our decisionmaking. Right? So to large extent you and I can say they are the puppet masters pulling the strings are
Reena Jadhav: Absolutely
Naveen Jain: Under reality. The motor context, simply following the direction
Reena Jadhav: After my two gut related health crisis nimbin, I’m completely convinced the gut is actually where the brain is. You know, we’ve confused that. You’re absolutely right. We’ve confused which has the priority. I believe that the gut actually does control the performance of your brain and so that to be, and that’s why we have such depression.
Reena Jadhav: That’s why we’re seeing the kind of levels of anxiety and depression.
Naveen Jain: You know, 90 percent of serotonin is produced in your gut, immune system. Seventy perCent of the immune system, either on gut lining, all immune system,
Reena Jadhav: Right in that little lining, that one cell lining, which by the way, you know one cupcake can go and kill you. No one glyophosphate written meal, but can glyphosate.
Naveen Jain: Glyphosate is a basically it kills the organism and when you take the food that is grown with glyphosate, it kills the organism in your gut.
Reena Jadhav: That’s right.It just my being poisoned with every meal, taking poison with every meal.
Naveen Jain: Oh my god. Oh my god. Somebody’s listening to this. Should be realizing that. What is it that these food companies, the pharmaceutical company, and I’m not, I’m not a conspiracy guy, say, oh my god, everybody’s out to get us, but to everybody I have to get at.
Reena Jadhav: It’s true. It’s true and it’s not. I don’t believe it’s intentional or not intentional
Naveen Jain: Not intentional because remember what happened. The segger lobby bc, hitler wasn’t top and see the fat was bad and everybody moved to the low fat diet. It turns out our body needs fat. Our body needs cholesterol. Our brain needs fat. I need school is strong and we made them the enemy in the end. The sugar lobby was the, did all that and now we’re realizing that actually enemy is the suder knock the carbohydrates, not the, not the fat, not the color of straw.
Reena Jadhav: That’s right. you’re right about the conspiracy in the sense if you watch what the health or fast food nation or you know, you read dr joel ferman, new book. When you read any of thIs and you realize when I say unintentional intentional, I mean their goal is to maximize profits and that means you need more customers and you need them addicted to your food.
Reena Jadhav: And so they’re designing things in the lab for their purpose. They’re not necessarily idealistic and looking at the consequences of their actions to longterm health of a nation. You know, there everyone’s just very much focused on what is my next quarterly report going to say and you know, how am I going to hit my numbers? And so we’ve created a science out of a addictive foods, uh, maximizing food production and keeping the price low. I mean, we’re one of the few nations with insanely low price, you know, ninety nine cents for a burger. How do you pull that off if not out of a lab? Right?
Naveen Jain: So I’m going to tell you some of my journey and maybe definitely help you think about what is it, why am I doing what I’m doing and why I’m so passionate about this? Um, I grew up in India. We will very, very poor.
Naveen Jain: We had no food to eat. We were, we moved from village to village every six months. We had no place to stay that we called home. I came to United States 35 years ago, 36 years ago. And with absolutely nothing, didn’t speak the language. I had $5 and you know, everybody in the society gave me a, you know, bro, you know, to some extent embraced me and allowed me to be who I am. And he and I sit today with god has been so kind to us. You know, life has been amazingly great for us and I look back at my life and seeing the people who helped me don’t need my help. And I have all this debt that I owe to the society. how am I going to pay this debt back? And the only way I know how to do that is to pay forward when I am looking at doing this wild to me had a single purpose in my life, which is how do I get help?
Naveen Jain: Millions of billions of people to get away from this healthcare crisis. How do we give them a control back for their own health? How do we keep people from being sick? Any one of us was washed, the loved ones go through a chronic disease and picking them you want. There is not many. One of them. None of them is a fun watching any one of our loved ones go through the chronic disease. So I took it on myself to go see what can I do to fix this issue? You know, we sold that to a cost of doing what we do. Would it have been, you know, 3000 to $5,000 today we offer it to our customers for $399. Think about that for a second.
Reena Jadhav: I’m gonna just gonna check on pricing because I’ve heard different pricing and
Naveen Jain: $399 dollars for the first time and it happened during the year because we want people to do more tests and so they can constantly change and adapt their thing.
Naveen Jain: We offer that for $199 and we lose money on those transactions, but we’re doing it because we are hoping that when people are healthy, it will essentially reduce healthcare costs. We spend trillions of dollars in healthcare costs, keeping people sick and my hope in once we fixed this problem, our whole society will get better and from my side is that my hope is with volume, just like any other exponential technologies, the cost will continue to come down. Our artificial intelligence system is already helping tens of thousands of people that it will already subscribed. We need millions of people so that I constantly tuning itself and fine tuning for every disease, every variety of the things that are happening in the human body. So I encourage everyone who’s listening to it. If we can all come together and make this system so finely tuned that we can offer this to everyone in the next three to five years for $10 or $15, that will be ideal because then we can fund it to philanthropic dollars.Right
Reena Jadhav: Exactly. And, and that’s the question is how do you bring the price point down to a level that becomes affordable for the common person? RigHt. So we don’t want this to be, again, something that’s available because of price point to the one percent we want this to be available to the bottom. Twenty percent were obese, obesity.
Naveen Jain: But look, I mean look at the cell phone when they started, it was only for the rich and famous people in their messiah tribe. They have a cell phone, we’ll have cell phone and I believe that is a power of exponential technologies that things like sequencing of the rna, those costs used to be know millions of dollars. They came down to thousands and we brought it down to $100. Now my point is the art technology has brought the cost down nine tenfold. That mrs $4,000 is under $400 now.
Naveen Jain: Right, and my hope really is in the next six months we’ll bring it down to one 99 is going to come down to $99 is going to come down to 49 is going to come down to 29 and 1995 or 1995, but those things will only happen at overtime and as more people join this liberal lucian,
Reena Jadhav: how do you bring the insurance companies and insurance companies out there pay for a lot of different testing? How do you get volume to be one of the tests that they provide some coverage for?
Naveen Jain: So interesting thing is that is a large extent playing with the devil. Yeah. The devil. The insurance company has no incentive to keep the people healthy because they make the fixed margin. I don’t know if you know how the insurance companies, by law, because they are regulated, they have to be 80 percent to 85 percent of their premium back in the what I would call the in terms of in terms of giving it back to the people or else they have to refund the money on the premium side, if they keeping 15 to 20 percent, the higher the money they charge them more money they make,right?
Naveen Jain: So they have no incentive to come up with a service that allows people to be healthy. The hospitals don’t want it. Pharmaceutical companies don’t want it. Doctors don’t want to. Nobody in the healthcare system that say let’s we keep reading unhealthy and dina never comes to see the doctor. How would the doctors family will be fed?
Reena Jadhav: Right? But there are tests that insurance does cover. So not the license. And what I’ve heard is that they’re looking for a study. So maybe share a little bit about how are you beginning to track your studies and results. You can actually put a package in front of them and say, you know, banging on the table and say, this is why you need to cover it. This is why it should be interesting
Naveen Jain: Interesting is if you, again remember the reason they covered is because the pharmaceutical company that had a drug for it, right?
Naveen Jain: So they do these things so that you can have a drug for it, right? Somebody has to pay for it, right? From our perspective, what we’re doing is food is the drug money wanted nobody, right? So point is they have no incentive. There’s no. Nobody says, let’s blow up this healthcare system, but coming back to answer your question, we have tens of thousands of people and I’m going to forward you the emails from our customers that actually get better. They feel so good. They lose weight. They have people who have acne, people who have auto immune disease, people who have things. Again, I can’t make those claims, but our customers tell us that they are in all these chronic diseases. How it is actually dr getting reversed simply by understanding following the right diet.
Reena Jadhav: So someone takes a test, you send out the results, the results come in, the format of here’s our recommended a diet plan, here’s a recommended nutrients and you know, one thing I was going to say, we’re not what we eat or what we digest, and that’s why I really enjoyed reading about your focus on digestion and absorption because that’s who we are. It doesn’t matter how much kale you are reading, if your body’s not absorbing it, you might as well not eat it.
Naveen Jain: Actually worst case, because when a lot of people who are on the paleo diet, what happens is they each so much protein and the protein should we digested in the small intestine. When they eat so much, it goes down to the large intestine and these microbes for the first time, you start to get these proteins that they’re not used to, so they cleared this new type of organism.
Naveen Jain: It’s got protein for mentors and these will be fermenters in your gut. These guys, when they ferment these protein, what the release is, tons of these toxins in your body that are absorbed in the blood. Right?
Reena Jadhav: And do you. Are you able to test for that? Because we are a. We are absolutely an overindulged protein nation. Look at all the protein bars and collagen powder is quito
Naveen Jain: For all the arena. So our test looks at the sporting fermenters because that’s why I said we look at what they are doing so we know the enzymes they’re producing. So we look at every trust.
Reena Jadhav: Brilliant
Naveen Jain: Every class group tells us what enzymes is being produced, what amino acids are being produced. We know in part with we know it is going to produce the lipo. Polysaccharides that ms is going to be toxins. It’s going to be inflammatory.
Naveen Jain: We know is the butyrate, which is going to be really good for your body,
Reena Jadhav: So actually a protein over protein diet could be creating the inflammation and the chronic illnesses for friend instead of fixing it, it actually could be contributing to it. And so in your results you’re able to share those kinds of details. But what happens next? Because I’ve taken so many tests, I mean you cannot imagine I’ve been, there isn’t a test I haven’t taken provider which I’m going to take next.
Naveen Jain: So it’s very interesting. So what happens is when you people do that, they follow the diet and obviously as they start to get better and the every three to four months they repeat the test and then they go back and oh now I got it right
Reena Jadhav: Okay. So you do repeat the test every pleading format
Naveen Jain: See I can tell you my information, I can.So I was trying to lose about 10 pounds and I was trying to also prediabetic. Everyone told me before, you know, before we had wild this out, all you have to do is cut down all the carbs, got down all the starch, start eating healthy and his spinach, avocado. I’m vegetarian. So lenten lagoons, tofu and all this stuff. Right? And you know, in the first few months I lost some weight and I thought, my god, this really works. Guess what? A year and a half later, my weight was back to exactly the same and I was basically, my glucose is going up. I launched while I was the first Guinea pig to go through the test. It turns out the recommendation was I need to eat more than half my diet needs to be the complex carbohydrate, right? I need to be minimizing is finished. Minimizing avocado, minimizing, eating wheat, eating. Everything that I was told was wrong and minimizing. Lenten lagoons and tofu are
Reena Jadhav: Interesting
Naveen Jain: Completely different because what was happening was I was eating the certain set of died that was actually my body was feeding certain microbes and they will grown through much and others were coming down completely screwed up, died because the amount of lentils, lagoons and fulfills all protein and I was having all this inflammation in my body
Reena Jadhav: So the details are right down to lentils and tofu, so you’re actually identify are you identifying spices as well or what else? In addition to the big food group,
Naveen Jain: Basically all in all different types of food that you can eat from every single food. We list down what is the super food, here are the five super foods for you here you should enjoy. That means have at least six to seven servings of these foods. You should really minimize that ms.no more than one to two servings.
Reena Jadhav: So how are you identifying? So let’s say, you know, I go in and get this test done, which as I mentioned, I definitely will be and I’ve not been taking dairy now for two years, but how does the test identify whether dairy can be brought back in, into my diet or not?
Naveen Jain: Into my diet or not? and again, you look at the stuff and seeing, you know, if you have these lactobacillius and they are not actually getting any data, they’re not producing any enzymes, so what is actually being produced or not. Okay. And then we said, well you really need the little bit higher amount of calcium, you really need this and the best source for that would be for example, you need to eat. Right.
Reena Jadhav: Gotcha. Okay. And are you able to test for things like wheat sensitivity or into our food intolerances?
Naveen Jain: We’d actually not today. We don’t test for food tolerances in the food sensitivities from the perspective of the blood, igg and ige, because what we’re finding is that many of the times, the current test that food sensitivity tests are actually a for mostly false positive, and let me just tell you why I say that. If you have a leaky gut, by definition, every time you have a leaky gut, every food that you have ever eaten goes out and gets into the bloodstream, and anytime the blurred at the immune system sees the thing it didn’t know what to do with. It creAtes antibodies which are called igg. So when you’re testing for these food tolerances, you’re basically looking for igg. So if you have a leaky gut, you’re likely to get a food intolerance for every possible thing to the results. Right? So my daughter comes to me and said, dad, I’m allergic to everything from it’s financially everything. I said, no sweetie, you have a leaky gut. Right? She went through her gi doctor who is a western medicine doctor, and she said, my dad thinks I have any. He got and you. What did she said? You said your dad does
Reena Jadhav: Wrong leaky gut. There is nothing called leaky gut. That’s right.
Naveen Jain: So you in. All I can do is as you can imagine that the parents, I am the dumbest
Reena Jadhav: Of course.
Naveen Jain: Guess what? As far as she’s concerned, she thinks are bad. The old days has lost it. He’s making up words. These making a board that don’t. Medical dictionary other people. Obviously other people are smarter. Right, right, right. Of course. I, I had one of the other gentlemen
Naveen Jain: who was practicing functional medicine said, look, our son went to that and he explained, you know,
Reena Jadhav: Yeah, I’m living proof of that. I had severe leaky gut and a year later it was healed and that suddenly I wasn’t. I could tolerate everything.
Naveen Jain: Exactly
Reena Jadhav: Yup. Yup. Yup
Naveen Jain: So the point is so interesting is that we have all these medical things. We check for things without understanding why they are there.
Reena Jadhav: Absolutely. Maybe my home at some point can start with biomeducate dental unit to go back and start training doctors that are interested in learning and keeping up because that’s one of the other challenges
Naveen Jain: Right now. So we are working with the institute for functional medicine in our time in seattle. You’re working with buster who actually for the natural pathic doctors and medicine doctors, you know, the is all of our medical schools are funded by the pharmaceutical companies and all the teach you is look for the symptoms and if you can identify a disease, here’s a prescription drug for it, right? So name them, tame them, name them,
Reena Jadhav: Monetize them, name them, name them, monetize them. That’s right. So let’s talk a little bit about someone has gone through the program. You’ve sent them the diet, not everyone can stick to a diet, you know, you and I might be able to do,o crazy things like I went on this 15 month diet with no caffeine, no gluten, no alcohol, but for normal people they’re like, are you kidding me? That’s never happening. So are you providing support? Are you providing phone based support or what community are you creating to help people stay on track?
Naveen Jain: So the two parts of things. First of all, we don’t really, you know, these new. Nobody’s committing a sin here. So what we see is try to minimize this and try to eat more of this, but it’s not like, oh my god, I took more until somebody was, I’m not a sinner just because you told me not to eat avocado and I had avocado sandwich. I’m not. As soon as we just say, you know, next time just don’t need it. Right. The idea is that we allow people to say it’s okay to be.
Naveen Jain: You don’t have to be perfection here because your body will constantly adjust and adapt. We just don’t want to be overdoing something that are bad for you. And it was. We also are artificial intelligence system is something called coach coach. Why? And the coach, why is your ai body that is constantly guiding you, helping you, reminding you and you know, we are adding more and more features like lunchtime. If I see you sitting at the restaurant, we can say, hey, I notice you are at this restaurant. Here are the three foods that are perfect for you. You may want to order.
Reena Jadhav: Oh, interesting. So you are starting to build in sort of what I call a virtual coach model, which I believe is the future
Naveen Jain: And the reason we don’t have, you know, be uh, working with the health coaching. But the problem is as a non scalable, if you’re ever going to get to a billion people, you can start something that can scale
Reena Jadhav: Absolutely. It has to scale.
Naveen Jain: It has to scale. It has. And the only way to scale is to the technology rather than human beings for it.
Reena Jadhav: Absolutely. But there is, there are some easy ways. I would assume that once you’ve identified for me as an example, you know, here’s the foods, here’s the yes, the no, the minimize, the maximize. Then that’d be pretty easy to create a model of a recipe database that pulls things out and says, hey, try this for lunch today. Try this one.
Naveen Jain: Yeah, blue dashed jennifer apps called chef. why that builds the menu for you to go, here’s what you can for breakfast, for lunch, for dinner. And we basically recommend all of those things that you want and guide you through that. But it’s again, using technology other than human beings.
Reena Jadhav: What’s coming next for biome? So as you look down the next 12 months, what can our listeners expect for amazing things for viacom to do?
Naveen Jain: So basically several things adding more in depth information. so for example, looking at the urine to understand the amino acids in the organic acids that basically all the biochemical activities that are happening inside your body that liberally actually pulling out so we know how your body’s processing different things. So we’re adding that. We are going to be adding more as the sensors become smaller and smaller and someday you might even have a nano box inside your body that’s constantly transmitting the information in the real time about as you eat certain things, how your body’s reacting to it. Right? So we are doing a complete study. We’re, we are building in machine learning model that will show us that we are putting thousands of people with a continuous glucose monitoring and you know, having them go through different diet to see and, and matt in a building, a machine learning model based on what different microbiome is doing in your gut. How your genes are being expressed, how you’re different, a body’s processing biochemical and we’re building a model that can say, you know, what arena, based on the things, even before I do any, just by looking at your microbiome, I can tell you don’t eat almonds, almonds are supposed to be low glycemic response for you. They’re going to cause a high glycemic response and high inflammation. So I don’t need to do any tests other than simply looking at your microbiome. I can predict what is going to happen to your body.
Reena Jadhav: So let’s say volume is hugely successful and gets, you know, a billion people to fix their guts and become, you know, start living in a world where truly illnesses in history books, as I say, of chronic illnesses in history books. Anyway. Well, how long can we live? You know, we talked briefly before we started recording about longevity and given your involvement, um, I’ve heard a number of 60. You had some very interesting thoughts to share with our listeners. Your thoughts on longevity.
Naveen Jain: Yeah. So you should look at the longevity that is, you know, when people, you know, if you go back a couple of hundred years ago, people average age used to be about 20, 25, right? So people thought, oh my god, that is really the biologically the body supposed to die. The time you vent will pass to you what I would call the, the age where you procreate. So once you go past your procreation age, at that point, you a burden on society. That’s right. It’s time to go, time to go and people used to that 20, 25 and people believe that human body cannot sustain any more than that. And you know, fast forward here now we are at 80 years of age, average of eight years and people believe somehow maybe we can dub the one 60 comes because average is 80 and people believe we can double it.
Naveen Jain: And that’s how it comes to one 60. But the point is there is no magical number here. If you think about the reason we die, I mean forget about all this spiritual side of all that stuff. Is that somehow the cells in our body, either through an energetically or biochemical, are either dying and they cannot sustain themselves because of toxicity of all the food that we’re eating, all the oxidation that it has, all the glyphosate that we’re taking, all the carbon dioxide, all the carbon that we have been inhaling, all the toxins that we’re inhaling in our everyday environment. All of that starts to build up and basically when it starts to build up a body, a liver can’t clean up everything. Our kidneys can clean up everything and slowly, slowly. Basically the function starts die. Now imagine if you have the stem cells and they’re constantly rebuilding our body.
Naveen Jain: They’re constantly cleaning up our stuff, right? We’re able to remove the center, will be able to go out and get the stem cells where they’re from, placenta cord blood, or even are using our own fat cells to convert them into stem cells and they’re constantly rebuilding and regenerating our human body. These no reason we could not live as long as we want to live, so we will be to Wyoming, will be living healthy and through other mechanisms will be living as long as we want and I may decide that I want to live to 160 and rena may decide she wants to live with it and that becomes a matter of choice.
Reena Jadhav: The ability to choose your end day. I liked that. I like that. This has been amazing a vein and I mean any last parting shots for our audience.
Naveen Jain: What I would say would be, first of all, I’m one to thank you.I want to salute you for what you are doing is really bringing this information to the people because people just don’t have access to this information. So I want to salute you for what you do because there are things you could be doing in your lifetime that you know are probably more, I would say financially beneficial, but you took on this cause because you want people to be educated. So thank you very much. and everyone listening to it, all I can say is, remember, there is nothing that you can’t do, the dream really big, dream so big that people think you’re crazy and go out and saw an audacious problem. The bigger the problem, bigger the opportunity. Never be afraid, fail because you only feel When you give up, so don’t give up on your dreams and go out and do some audacious thing and change the way people are going to live their life and someday rena and I are going to be saluting youtube.
Reena Jadhav: I love that. On that note, again, thank you so much. Good luck in Viome and for the rest of you, I’m going to see you on our next podcast, a smiling. See you soon.